Those lights can be quick and tricky...I work right there... as you are stopped for a red light it can go from green to yellow before you get out of the intersection...we don't know what happened and or if alcohol was a factor...we just lose to people and that is even harder than the accident! God Bless the families and slow down and be carefull!
23 mile is a very busy road!
Please everyone slow down and be carefull everywhere you drive!

The signals are designed to turn as soon as the approach has no cars in it. If the light turns yellow while you are still in the intersection, it will not turn red until you are through. Also, the way the signals hang now (box span) puts the signals significantly further in front of the driver, which allows you to see what color is indicated much further into the intersection than in the past with a diagonal span. I AM going to speculate, and I have heard it was basically confirmed that alcohol was a factor. This story makes me beyond angry, along with any drunk driving fatality. You have every right to say your thoughts on the signals, but I don't think there is any reason to bring them up in this instance, as they were not mentioned in the story. Your speculation will only lead to other residents losing faith in the safety of the signals, that probably had no part in this sad, sad story.

I agree with the quick-change signals... especially the one at Schoenherr and 25... MANY times it will change before I am through... or turn green as I approach and go yellow before I can get there... much too fast sometimes, and confusing.
Also, "alcohol was a factor" is NOT equal to "drunk" driving, but merely a catch-all used ANYTIME they find ANY evidence... even just one beer, which is NOT illegal. This is a sly way they can raise revenue through traffic fines and insurance rates. I don't condone "drunk" driving in the least, but let's wait for toxicology results before crucifying someone who lost their life. The accident is tragic no doubt, Godspeed to the families affected.

This was a horrible situation any way you slice it. At the end of the day, two families lost a loved one. One will have to endure the agony of losing a child, another the loss of a family member and the guilt that their loved one may have been responsible for the first family's grief. I'll be keeping both in my thoughts.

Angry about Drunk Driving. Thank you.. Your comment is right on.
Everyone is in a hurry and I see it every day. My heart just aches for this family.
I have grandchildren and I just cannot imagine their pain. Simply put, there is just no excuse for this tragic accident.

I can't even imagine the loss of a toddler, this is tragic. People need to stop being in a big hurry all the time, slow down, pay attention, and have respect for other drivers. Stuff like this should wake all of us up.

Terribly tragic ... Time to Help!
While I think we all have the previous discussion down pat, let put the energy into action and help this Dad and his family the best way our community can at this time of challenge. Anyone have any ideas or contact information? As an area business person just 2 streets from the location, I would love to help give this guy a ray of support!

I was sitting on 22 and Schoenherr at the red light, so it was red already, and a car flew by me, and then another one, right thru the light. I thought, why are there never cops around to see this?. I have noticed the light on 24 and van dyke changes to green as i approach it and if there is no one behind me, it is red before i barely get thru it? that is weird and seems dangerous.. but sounds like other intersections are the same. something new?? is it a good idea?

Sending up prayers for the families who have lost loved ones. May this be an eye opener for people who think even one beer or drink is ok to drive on, if your going to drink do it responsibly and get a DD. These families have alot to deal with now and will need support. Try to remember while being upset by such a great loss that the family of the drunk driver was not responsible for this tragic accident and may read the horrible stuff about there loved one that people will post out of anger. This will not change what has happened, it will only cause more pain to a family who will suffer from pain already. GOD BLESS!!

I can't stop thinking about this story. My heart aches. @A.W. Local Mom - those are all great ideas. I will keep everyone posted about funeral arrangements and donations as soon as they become available. @A.W. Local mom if you could email at marina.cracchiolo@patch.com, I have a question to ask. Thanks!

Hi Jill,
I cannot tell you how many times I called Shelby Township police about speeders running red lights and said your city could make lots of monies if they had cameras and police in certain areas where there are constant speeders. They said they are too busy with other things. Yet on my way to work one morning, my headlight went out on my new car and I got pulled over by a nasty, rude cop telling me that it went out and to get it fixed. I could not believe it and I said why don't you focus on red light runners, drunk drives, speeders and all the other things I witness on a daily basis!! I am just heartsick about this family losing their child. My heart is with them.

My heart aches for both families involved, and they are in my prayers that God will be with them and help them through the grieving and healing process. "Who" or "What" is to blame will not bring back their loved ones or effect any change for the future. We all need to learn from this tragedy if this is to be prevented from happening again. People all seem to be in such a big hurry, and they often only look or think about their own "agenda". Too often, manners and consideration for the "other guy" are sadly lacking in our society today. I have a grandson who will be driving in a few years, and I'm already worrying about how he will fare on the roads out there! Before casting stones, I hope everyone will remember the saying, "There but for the grace of God go I." SLOW DOWN AND PAY ATTENTION...it CAN happen to you!!

This comment was deleted as it violated Patch's Acceptable Use Policy, which can be reviewed in our Terms of Use: http://macomb.patch.com/terms. There are two families here feeling a lot of pain. Comments containing defamatory, abusive, obscene, profane or offensive language will be deleted.

@ S CRAIG....I have ideas and contact info. How may I contact you more directly? I agree that we should utilize the energy! ASAP. Already begun some actions.

I knew the woman...I WANT to hate her for what she did IF she was driving drunk...but I can't...she honestly was a nice person. IF she was drunk...I am sickened by her choice to drive and literally want to throw up for the pain her stupidity has caused both families but I am sadened for her too and wonder what she could have been thinking!! What was going on with her???...Why would she drink and drive?! I just can't imagine the gut wrenching grief the family of the 3 year old little girl is going through. Their lives will never be the same...never be complete anymore...I feel for the woman's family also, missing her and probably wanting answers. I hope BOTH families look to God for comfort and don't ask "why?" and turn from Him as so many do when tragedy strikes!!! What a tragedy too...I just can't imagine!!!!!!! SOOOOOOOOOOOO SAD!!!!!!!

My heart goes out to all involved. A baby was taken from this earth in a horrible accident. Can't even imagine what the family of the 3 year old is dealing with. God must have needed another angel. Please know there are a lot of people praying that you are all givein the strength to get through this. GOD BLESS!!! Crying Inside

For all of you who have expressed the wish to help this little girl's family, stay tuned. We've found a way and we'll be publishing the necessary information tomorrow (Friday) morning.

I was there and witnessed the whole thing. Traffic was stopped at 23 mile and Hayes and the driver of the Buick car went into the left hand turn lane to blow the red light because cars were already stopped at the light. This had nothing to do with the timing of the lights. I was also the nurse that provided CPR to the little girl. This was a horrible loss and my prayers go out to the 3 year old's mother, father, and entire family.

@Sad Friend: At this point we have to wait for toxicology reports to know if and how much she had drank. Also, police are being very tight-lipped about the investigation. They won't tell us where the woman was before or heading to. She was alone in the vehicle.

Thanks...still just so hard to believe and so sad....soooo soooo soooo sad!

The previous comment has been deleted for violating Patch's Terms of Use. Please remember that Patch's Acceptable Use Policy prohibits comments containing defamatory, abusive, obscene, profane or offensive language - even if that profanity is “masked” (e.g., F@&#). Please review our Terms of Use: http://macomb.patch.com/terms.

Hey sad friend and Grieving too! Your "friend" and "nice" women and mother and blah blah blah murdered our baby. Keep your grief to yourself no one cares to hear about it. She died a murderer I hope you are all proud of that.

Just so you know this isn't a parent writing this. It is a family member however. A chronic drunk, a one time drunk .... Drunk is drunk. And my money is on drugs as well. Time will tell. Right now my anger is not misplaced. Drinking and driving IS NO MISTAKE!!!!! It is a CHOICE!!!!
She chose to get in that piece of garbage car she was driving DRUNK and knew she was drinking and plowed into my entire family!!!! That is no mistake!!! One other child in the car is still recovering from a lacerated liver and spleen! We are lucky we still have her!!! She very easily could have been murderded as well!!! And yes she is a murderer! Had she lived I would have loved to meet her in someone's courtroom. Rotting in prison would have been a nice alternative. Forgiveness if ever is a long time coming. It may be way overrated.

Alchol, drugs, IT ALL matters!! It killed my family. Defending a drunk, likely high, killer in a car sickens me. And the outcome would NOT be the same!!! If you don't drink do drugs and drive a car no one dies!! No one is blaming you for anything except defending stupidity and responding with lunacy. Read what you wrote!! Omg!! "it would not matter either way" are you serious ?!! The pain and devastation of losing the youngest member of our family is so overwhelming .... And for what.... Driving drunk. There is NO excuses for that!!! I don't care

Dennis: Lets just say I know a few officers and her blood alcohol content was .17 which is over twice the legal limit. Secondly, for all of you who claim to have known the woman who caused the accident... what do you have to say about her mental status and her previous psychological issues? Perhaps you didn't know her as well as the local ER physician's knew her and her frequent trips to the ER due to her psych issues. And yes, toxicology results can take a few weeks to get the results, blood alcohol content however can be found in minutes upon arrival to the ER.

I have no doubt that the driver's family is also in extreme pain and grief. However, bare in mind that your family member/friend make the decision to drive in these conditions and as a result, killed an innocent three year old. A three year old who hadn't even learned to spell her name yet. While you are still suffering, bare in mind that you had over 40 YEARS with your loved one... this family barely had 40 MONTHS with their child.

God is good and forgiving, but remember God will judge us all when our time comes... and I pray for the driver's soul as she faced her judgement day. Lord knows, after taking such a precious life and destroying a family, she is going to need it.

Anything about what she was like, how nice she was etc etc etc.... Her last act negates it all!!! She murdered a little girl

I think social drinkers who do not designate a driver then go out and cause these accidents and deaths are different than someone who may have mental health problems and probably can't function in day to day activities due to that illness who may self medicate and/ be on prescriptions as well. Sounds like a possibility if in fact she was known by hospital staff as mentioned in the previous comment. That is very sad to me and I cannot help but to totally disagree someone like that is equivalent to a murderer. Those are harsh words but understandably in such a tragedy as this. I truly pray for everyone effected on both sides.

Why haven't we been told who this woman is yet? Why are things so tight? I understand about our friend's daughter since she was minor but why not the driver who is dead? Is she connected to someone important?
All I can say is that funeral was the most horrific thing I have ever experienced. No one should ever have to bury a young child. The fact that she was taken so suddenly is the worst part. I just hope we learn one thing from this tragic event, don't drink and drive. Please plan ahead before you make dumb choices and drive. No one says you can't have fun with friends and family, but make choices BEFORE heading out to have fun. Remember everytime you get behind the wheel drunk, you could kill your own child, family member, or friend. My thoughts are with our friends who lost their beautiful baby girl!!

I think everyone needs to step back and look at the Mini Van they were driving. My Father was killed after someone ran a stop sign in Detroit 5 months ago. No alchohal involved, but poor design of the mini van from Chrysler. He was hit by a small newer Toyota traveling around 35mph the police said. He was wearing a seat belt and had the side air bags. He died cause the sliding door failed to prevent intrusion into the vans side like it is supposed to. Yes a supposed drunk hit the van and that is a total tragic loss either way, but I totally believe the little girl would be alive today if the Van was built safer. I could see from the photos that the door separated from the B post and entered the Van sticking the girl the same way it struck my father and Numerous other children and adults alike who have been killed the same way since this new style Chrysler van was released. Says Five Star side impact yet I know of at least 21 people who have died from side impact side door failure since my Father was killed in what he thought was a safe van. Look it up for yourselves and make sure Chrysler and Insurance Company don't destroy the Van before they can be held responsible for faulty design.

Hey... Greiving too... did you satisfy your morbid curiosity by attending the funeral? Did you get a good look at the grief? Did you get a good look at the angel the your relative put in a minature casket? Not only did your looser relative ROB my family of a life, but by attending the funeral, and not revealing yourselves you have also robbed them of a private, personal moment - saying good bye to their little girl. How completely disrespectful and disgusting! For that act alone you are no better than her! My guess is that someone in your family knew she should not be on the road or even have a drivers license! Am I right? I think I am. Someone had to know... but just looked past it. And now my family is paying for it.

If her husband was so distraught about having to pull the plug... should have called me I could have easily yanked it out for him!

I can't believe some of these comments have not been removed. I'm rather disappointed.

1. I highly doubt you know any of the same cops, because if you did, you would understand that they will not lose their jobs for this info. They did not share the drivers name with anyone, therefore to all of us, we just refer to her as the moron driver who murdered a little girl. Nothing was breached, nothing was discussed in an illegal manner. Furthermore, her blood alcohol content is a matter of PUBLIC record when it goes on the police report. It is NOT protected information. Perhaps you should read up on your laws, in particular the HIPPA laws, before you start accusing us of breaking them. We do not know your loved ones name, address, or identifying factors , therefore nothing was breached.

You also have a lot of nerve questioning whether or not we are law-abiding citizens. We obey the law, we respect the law, and most importantly, we respect life. I wish I could say the same for your loved one. Making the decision to drink and drive clearly indicates her lack of respect for life, both for her own and for others on the road.

That being said, you must understand the pure anger and hatred that is COMPLETELY natural for this family to be experiencing at this time. You may not think that it is fair, that it is warranted, or that it is right, but the truth of the matter is, it IS natural for us to experience anger in a situation like this.

"the moron driver who murdered a little girl" would be an identifying factor. "blood alcohol content is a matter of PUBLIC record when it goes on the police report" any officer involved cannot discuss an open investigation. "in particular the HIPPA laws... We do not know ... identifying factors" - the ER doctor is in direct violation of HIPPA, and cannot discuss any patient's info with ANYONE, EVER, even post mortem. You may have just opened the Dr and hospital to a lawsuit as their identities are easily attained and tied to this incident. You may feel entitled to know in this case, but fact is confidentiality laws were broken.

I understand the anger and hate, but it prevents healing. Some people find comfort in their faith. May you find peace, and Godspeed to your family through this tragedy and loss.

Lets just be clear, "an angry mother" is NOT the mother of the little girl killed. And no, confidentiality wasn't breached. I would encourage you to look into the HIPPA laws again. I can assure you, they were not broken. Furthermore, it was NOT any officer INVOLVED in the crash that discussed this information. And if you feel compelled to try to sue the hospital for this, go for it, it just further proves the integrity of your character.

And for the record, anger does NOT prevent healing. It has been 2 weeks since she was killed. ANY mother would be angry at this point in the grieving process. Have you even heard of the seven stages of grief? Do you remember that anger is one of them? This is natural and completely normal. In fact, many psychiatrists, counselors, and therapists would agree that anger IS necessary in the healing process, especially this soon after a tragedy. I can assure you that the family DOES find comfort in their faith and faith that the Lord will carry them through this tragedy. Just because they are angry, does not mean they are not faithful or trusting in God.

Anger is the 3rd stage, healing begins with/after the 5th stage, which doesn't begin until the prior stages have completed... hence my position. Again, thoughts to the family.

Why hasn't the name of the driver been released yet?

Lets not blame the person that was drinking. Lets blame the traffic lights at the intersection. I 'am the grand-father of my one and only grand-daughter Megan Thomas. She was murdered on Mar,17th 2006 just by another drunk driver here in America. How can you personally stop drunk driving? Go to the web site below. The web site belongs to a writer in Arizona and her name is Julianne Evans. She has put what happened to our grand-daughter on her site. Read and look at the slideshows and they will tell you on how you can stop drunk driving. Do not let your family or friends tell you their final words as they lay dying such as our grand-daughter told my wife the night that she died. "Grammy I Can Not Breathe!" Leave a comment for Julianne and she will respond to you. Julianne Evans Web Site:
http://aevans.hubpages.com/hub/Megan-Madeline-Thomas-Murdered-By-Jacob-J-Herbert-of-Susquehanna-Pennsylvania-Being-Paroled

I have tried to follow up with police on this story but they have been very tight-lipped. Since the investigation remains open, they won't release a police report. They are not releasing the victim or the driver's name and they said the BAC report will only show up on the toxicology report, which can take up to 6 weeks. I am really sorry. I have nothing new to report.

Thank you Ed drunk drivers are murderers!!! I'm so sorry about your granddaughter!! As we have discovered the loss and pain is overwhelming! The only traffic light problem is the one the murderer blatantly ignored as she blew thru it DRUNK at over 60mph!!

And don't worry macomb resident name of the murderer all in good time!

And hey Angelo? Really? The van design? Ed can you believe the brilliance of society? Let's blame van design, the bright sunlight, traffic lights!! THERE IS NO RESPONSIBLITY in today's society!!! Blame everyone or everything else! You can design a van like a tank but it gets hit at over 60 mph by a piece of garbage boat of a car a tiny body has next to no chance. Its a matter of physics.
You all need to stop and put the blame where it belongs. And for whoever can't do that I suspect you think it's ok to get behind the wheel with any amount of alcohol in your system. Any amount of alcohol is impaired and in today's society it's almost always coupled with drugs. And I'm placing my bets here and now that will be the case here also.

Hey Just My Opinion, yes I know a supposed Drunk killed your Family. My point was that the little girl would have stood a better chance if the Van was designed better. Your family is not the only one who has lost a child in a side impact collision in that peticular newer minivan. There are dozens of other Families who have lost their children because of a design flaw. I'm trying to bring attention to this because no matter who hits you, Drunk, Sober, on Drugs, Texting, Talking on a Phone, Eating food, Sun in their eyes, Lights timed wrong, etc.. More people will die here. I'm in no way defending this person and don't know how you even get that from my post about my father who was killed by someone sober and hit at only 35 mph not driving a piece of Garbage boat as you say. I think they need to change the Laws about Driving Drunk. You kill someone and you charged with Manslaughter. 2 years. That's a bunch of BULL. you drink, you Drive it's Murder 1st Degree no Questions Asked. But I'm just trying to make a point, the Van is not safe in a side impact weather 20 Mph or 60Mph. It can be made safer especially since its the number one selling minivans and sole purpose is for families to drive. I just want to stop more kids from becoming a statistic, another family torn from their child. THAT'S ALL!!

No.....not a "supposed" drunk! Let's be clear she was clearly drunk the details are well known and when I can her name will be listed here in capital letters for the world to see. And maybe the van does have design flaws but at this time in my life and the life of our family nothing matters but the senselessness of the murderess drunk driver.

Grieving too..... Not sure what nastiness you might be referring to?? Just wanted to clear up the repeated confusion about the legitimacy of the drunken state the killer was in. And really did you just mention the purchase of a new vehicle!?! Are you kidding me!!?? Like its just another sunny day and maybe the family might like to go get a new van! This just demonstrates the clear lack of intelligence and "think before you speak "mentality.
And further there is no "fun " here and if it's fun you're having there are places for you to be admitted. Keeping people on point and keeping the focus on drunk driving and the person who did it is my issue. She doesn't get off becasue she took the easy way out and killed herself in the process. So while I'm busy being angry you can bet all the focus is going to be on mizz DB. Don't think I'm bluffing on the name. I'll leave the whole name up to other people. In the meantime keep talking because I have a lot to say about impaired (alcoholic, narcotic, psychotic) beg a dr, buy it off the streets, get it from a bartender AND GET IN A VEHICLE and DRIVE killers!

A "remarkable" person because she didn't seek help for her multitude of issues!! Had she sought help for her issues she may not have went on a murderous drive in a vehicle on June 25! Remarkable and DB in the same sentence makes me sick! and the people that knew her shouldnt be shocked at all....or you really couldn't have known her as well as you claim now could you?? . What a bunch of great friends and family that someone didn't intervene long before she dug herself an early grave and took a little girl with her. So yes that easily makes all of you guilty for not reining in that self destructive behavior before it injured someone else. If you truly know and love someone it's very easy to recognize.
There is absolutely nothing "remarkable" about this dead woman or any of you associated with her. What would have been remarkable is if one of you who claim to have known her so well would have gotten her some help.....apparently 40 yrs ago! What a train wreck of a life...

Please be respectful to each other on this forum. Patch is a place where the community can engage in conversation and everyone is allowed to express their opinion, so long it doesn't violate the terms of use, which include no name calling, swearing or slander. Comments that are not in line with Patch's terms of use will be deleted. Thank you, Marina.

There is way too much drinking and driving around here.

My prayers and thoughts are never going to be with the families of this driver who inflicted so much pain and suffering on my cousins family. THE roads are crazy enough out there without these kind of sick people on them! PLEASE pray and support the victims family and this i ask you in the name oh the Father, Holy Father in Heaven and may God look out and confort
you all in the years ahead! ALL My Love CARMEN